that we, as general citizens cannot (legally) provoke a fight, then shoot someone and claim “self defense”.
Same same this stupid incident in Minneapolis.
While the idiot woman Fucked around and Found out, the ICE Agent (now named) cannot jump in front of a vehicle attempting to flee and shoot at it before the driver even has a chance to respond and then claim “Justified Force” because “Vehicular Assault”….
“ICE Barbie” and Tom Homan’s narrative not withstanding.
ETA: Even the “New” footage (some say BodyCam, but it looks more like a cellphone video to me) shows the officer stepping in front of the car as it starts to move, putting himself in harms way….(ETA: It was indeed a a cell phone held in his left hand)
And he was so “Afraid for his life” that he was able to hold the cell phone in one hand while drawing and firing with the other. Seemed like he was pretty calm for a man who thought he was about to be run down by a “4000 lb weapon”
And all he had to do was take one more step to his left to be out of harm’s way. Which he DID after shooting three shots. Funny that.
Instead, he chose to draw and fire three shots (and it wasn’t that fast of a draw, he had plenty of time to move). The more we see, the worse it looks for agent Ross.
Correct you as a citizen cannot step in front of a car and shoot the driver and then claim self-defense. On the other hand, you as a citizen who are obstructing federal law enforcement in performance of their lawful duty and have been ORDERED out of your vehicle do not get to drive off. Does not matter what you think, feel, want to protest or anything else. You have been given a lawful order and have disobeyed it by non-compliance. Go get stopped by your local law enforcement authority and get ordered out of your vehicle and try to not comply and see how well that goes. You either have rule of law, or anarchy. If she had complied with LAWFUL orders, she would still be alive. The ICE agent followed the law and will not be charged under federal statutes; local law does not enter into it under the supremacy clause in the constitution.
Yer obviously stuck in a frame of reference where you bought the whole “Vehicular Assault” thing and had prejudged the shoot even before you saw the videos and now can’t step back and be the logical person you appeared to be when you first started posting.
Were the orders lawful? Maybe and maybe not. ICE isn’t police, they are thugs hired to remove illegals. They like to throw their weight around but they don’t get to take over the streets either.
Even so, Agent Ross stepped in front of a barely moving car and put himself in harms way, He had the opportunity to step aside (Which he DID do after he shot three times, killing Ms Good) .
Your mistake is that you conflate fleeing with somehow being a threat to others (which is the only time besides a direct threat to an officer when a cop can shoot). He had no reason to believe that she was a threat to anyone else, and HE PUT HIMSELF IN HARMS WAY. IF she had broken the law, they could have arrested her anywhere (they had her plates and description, after all).
You claim of “Attempted Vehicular Homicide” is invalid on it’s face, and is NOT corroborated by the videos.
I realize that you can’t back down from your emotional choices yesterday. You aren’t a big enough person to objectively look at something once you made the emotional decision to side with Agent Ross… But you are WAY incorrect here and when this goes to court (which it will) you will be shown to be wrong.
Stop making an ass of yourself here in comments. You mistakenly assume that ICE can do whatever they want, wherever they want, however they want. and that just isn’t so. (Nor can the protesters, but that doesn’t mean that ICE can shoot them just because they get pissed off)
No matter how Tom Homan spun it for you, and continues to spin it, and no matter how strongly and childishly you want to believe and reinforce your first feelings, this was a Bad Shoot. All the lies, all the spin won’t change that.
Try running from a bail enforcement agent , who is not the police aka law enforcement officer, and see what happens. Oh, and ice agents are law enforcement officers.
I can run from them and ignore their demands just like any other private citizen.
If they (Bounty Hunters) threaten deadly force, I can respond in kind, just like any other person threatening me.
Bail Enforcement agents are not cops, not law enforcement and have no special powers. They are, essentially, hired thugs
If you think otherwise you need to educate yourself. They are just people like you and me, nothing more.
They don’t get special rights to threaten or use deadly force.
Take the time to look up the laws (which very widely by state, but still all have similar limitations).
Pot meet kettle. You are the one with the emotional response problem. ICE are legally hired, trained, and deployed FEDRAL law enforcement. No different than any other Federal law enforcement such as US Marshall’s or FBI or any other alphabet soup government agency you care to mention. You can’t get past the fact that she was given a lawful order to exit the vehicle and chose not to. No matter how much you hate cops and love illegal aliens you are wrong, period. Try this, go on you tube and you can find tons of folks just like her who decided to ignore lawful orders from various local, state, and federal law enforcement. You will see everything from pepper spray to tasers to dogs and guns to force compliance. Lots with fatal consequences for non-compliance. You just can’t admit you are wrong and the proof will be right along because like all those other instances of people dying by non-compliance with law enforcement, that ICE agent will be cleared.
Cleared by ICE who will investigate themselves and find nothing wrong.
Courts will find otherwise.
There is a lot of question as to whether the order was lawful or not. I don’t see where it was lawful, but I could be wrong. Please show me where they (iCE) has the right to give an order without a crime, add what crime they thought she had committed. (pissing them off foolishly is not a crime, no matter what you or they might think).
I don’t hate cops, only out of control ones…and I too want the illegals GONE, but I also want limits on the tactics those arresting them can use….(Hint: If Federal agents can use unconstitutional and brutal tactics on illegals, they can use them on dissenters like you and me).
I don’t understand your thought process that ICE agents can do whatever they wish.
You are incorrect in that belief.
They have limits just like any other law enforcement agency. “Federal” doesn’t give them any fewer limits.
2 things are true: Ms. Good FAFO’d…and Officer Ross killed her unnecessarily and without proper legal justification. The video doesn’t lie about that.
Who cares…
Getting emotional and argumentative about something that didn’t happen in your driveway is unnecessary.
Neither involved ever sent me a Birthday Card.. Ever..Oh well..
I probably shouldn’t mention that I wholeheartedly believe in “When it’s your time to go”. You’re dead
Regardless of circumstance.
I only care because ICE is growing in power and there are no checks upon their behavior or actions.
It appears that the thought process of the current administration has is “ICE agents can do whatever they want, whenever they choose and we will excuse their behavior”..
Tom Homan excused this murder within MINUTES of it happening. No investigation nothing.
Those who see the ICE as unassailable in this situation, I have a question. If this had happened under Obama would you feel the same, or would this be an out of control gestapo-like agency?
I would judge this the same no matter who was President, or who the person shot was.
This is an agency that has out of control people who need to be reigned back a bit.
Much like ATF and US Marshalls back in the 90’s and ’00s, a police agency with no limits and too much power does stupid things and oversteps their bounds. See Waco for an example of unrestrained power used poorly.
B
My question was directed at those who believe nothing ICE or Trump does us wrong
Seems like you’re pretty set on the woman having no blame here. If we use the same standard for her that you are using for the cop, I don’t think that view holds up.
She blocked the road to initiate the confrontation. All the garbage that followed came from her choice to use force to get her way.
I would have the same thoughts on a road rage idiot that blocked the road to start a fight getting shot. One idiot using a 2500lb force multipler to force somebody else’s behavior is a dangerous violent person actively doing dangerous violent things. Play very stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Oh, no, not at all. I am unsympathetic. She chose to put herself there and tweak the tigers tail.
What I am against is the thought process that ICE can order you to do anything and can shoot you if they choose and that their actions are unaccountable.
Agent Ross overstepped his authority when he stepped in front of a vehicle believing he could shoot her if she did not comply immediately. He put himself in the way of harm, and then claimed he was “In Fear For His Life” as an excuse for firing 3 rounds and killing her. Again, if you or I did that we’d be jailed and charged with Murder. So should he.
If they excuse his behavior and if YOU do so, then they can kill anyone they choose with no consequences. We saw how well that sort of mindset worked in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s with the ATF and US Marshalls service doing what they wanted, when they wanted, with no accountability.
Had she driven towards him attempting to strike him from 20 feet away while he was standing in the road, that would be one thing: That would indeed be vehicular assault. That is not the case here. He put himself in a position to be struck as she started to flee. Further, he could have taken one more step to his left and been out of the danger he put himself into. He chose not to. He stepped in front, drew, and shot. He was so not “in fear for his life” that he even held a cell phone in his left hand while drawing with his right. Seems pretty unafraid to me.
Ms Good FAFO’d . I am unsympathetic. But that does not excuse Agent Ross of murder. The two are not exclusive.
First let me say that I’m not that familiar with you or your world view and I also have concerns with unrestrained police power. With that said, and having looked at the various vids several times, I don’t see the necessary elements for a murder conviction. I don’t think Ms. Good was deliberately aiming her car at the cop but her attempt to flee a situation she created helped set the scene, I see no evidence that the cop was trying to set up a justification for a kill. If you restrict yourself to what the cop would have seen from his perspective in a very limited time frame I don’t believe you could “beyond a reasonable doubt” vote to convict. Just my humble thoughts, I’m not a lawyer but I did play one on stage once.